71
be made to produce a duty receipt. The Opium Farmer's permit would be necessary in all
cases.
After Sir R. Hart had read the draft Ordinance, Shao Tuotai asked whether a document could be drawn up showing what had been settled up to the present time. He said it might be a long time before the negotiations with Macao came to a conclusion, and, meantime, he could not go back to Peking empty-handed.
Mr. Russell said that nothing had as yet been decided, and, consequently, there was nothing to commit to paper. Until the Chinese Commissioners had obtained equivalent terms from Macao he could not make any Report to the Governor, or commit himself to any course of action.
Shao Taotai then went into a long explanation to the effect that it was useless seeking the co-operation of Macao until an agreement had been come to with Hong Kong; China might obtain her terms from Macao, and then perhaps the Hong Kong Legislative Council would refuse to pass the Ordinance, or Her Majesty's Government might withhold its assent. Shao Taotai suggested that at this stage an exchange of despatches might be made. He added that if Mr. Russell would neither give a copy of the Ordinance nor draw up a Memorandum, the Chinese Commissioners would not be in a position to show Macao what had been done in Hong Kong.
Mr. Russell said he was not at liberty to proceed any further before the views of Macao had been ascertained. He thought that the telegram which the Chinese Commissioners had sent to Peking would contain all the information Macao could want; moreover, Chinese Commissioners were at liberty to refer the Governor of Macao to the Governor of Hong Kong.
Mr. Brenan suggested that it would not take long to see whether Macao would entertain some arrangement similar to that proposed for Hong Kong; the meeting could be adjourned for a few days to give time to do this.
Sir R. Hart said he had expected that the details of the Hong Kong arrangement could have been settled to-day, and that next Saturday a Memorandum might have been drawn up showing what had been agreed upon. In that case, he said in strict confidence, he had been instructed to go to Macao, and he had intended going there next Monday.
Shao Taotai said he thought Sir R. Hart could not now go without fresh instructions from Peking. The instructions were only to go if terms were settled with Hong Kong; as nothing has been settled, Shao Taotai did not think the instructions held good.
Sir R. Hart explained to him that the Hong Kong settlement depended upon the attitude of Macao.
Shao Taotai thought that it would be better to record what the understanding with Hong Kong was, and then, if Macao refused to make a similar arrangement, the matter was at an end.
Mr. Russell said that did not necessarily follow; perhaps some further plan could be proposed.
Sir R. Hart said he would like to lay on the table a paper showing what modifications might have been made, if necessary, had his proposals regarding hulks been entertained. He had intended to have made this explanation at the time, but had been prevented by Mr. Russell putting forward his counter-proposal.
Mr. Russell reminded Sir R. Hart that, before putting forward his plan, he had asked whether, on the side of Chinese, there was any alternative proposal.
Mr. Russell inquired whether Shao Taotai had obtained the Annual Returns, showing how much opium paid duty at the Native Customs in Kwangtung and Fukien.
Shao Taotai said that, as regards Fukien, the Tartar General, who is also Superintendent of Customs, could give no Returns, as the duty was collected by the local officials at the different ports. As regards Kwangtung, the collection last year was on 6,500 piculs.
Mr. Russell asked whether Shao Taotai would put a written statement to that effect on the table.
Shao Taotai hesitated and said that he had merely telegraphed privately to the Superintendent of Customs at Canton, who had replied privately. Shao Taotai explained that the Superintendent at Canton reported his receipts to Peking as if he had collected 30 taels a picul; as a matter of fact he gave a rebate, so that while the amount of duty was correct, the number of chests was understated.
Mr. Russell wished it to be noted that while China was asking Hong Kong to assist her in repressing smuggling, the Chinese authorities were unable to produce Returns to show whether smuggling existed or not.
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be made to produce a duty receipt. The Opium Farmer's permit would be necessary in all
cases.
After Sir R. Hart had read the draft Ordinance, Shao Tuotai asked whether a docu- ment could be drawn up showing what had been settled up to the present time. He said it might be a long time before the negotiations with Macao came to a conclusion, and, meantime, he could not go back to Peking empty-handed.
Mr. Russell said that nothing had as yet been decided, and, consequently, there was nothing to commit to paper. Until the Chinese Commissioners had obtained equivalent terms from Macao he could not make any Report to the Governor, or commit himself to any course of action.
Shao Taotai then went into a long explanation to the effect that it was useless seeking the co-operation of Macao until an agreement had been come to with Hong Kong; China might obtain her terms from Macao, and then perhaps the Hong Kong Legislative Council would refuse to pass the Ordinance, or Her Majesty's Government might withhold its assent. Shao Taotai suggested that at this stage an exchange of despatches might be made. He added that if Mr. Russell would neither give a copy of the Ordinance nor draw up a Memorandum, the Chinese Commissioners would not be in a position to show Macao what had been done in Hong Kong.
Mr. Russell said he was not at liberty to proceed any further before the views of Macao had been ascertained. He thought that the telegram which the Chinese Commissioners the had sent to Peking would contain all the information Macao could want; moreover, Chinese Commissioners were at liberty to refer the Governor of Macao to the Governor of Hong Kong.
Mr. Brenan suggested that it would not take long to see whether Macao would enter- tain some arrangement similar to that proposed for Hong Kong; the meeting could be adjourned for a few days to give time to do this.
Sir R. Hart said he had expected that the details of the Hong Kong arrangement could have been settled to-day, and that next Saturday a Memorandum might have been drawn up showing what had been agreed upon. In that case, he said in strict confidence, he had been instructed to go to Macão, and he had intended going there next Monday.
Shao Taotai said he thought Sir R. Hart could not now go without fresh instructions from Peking. The instructions were only to go if terms were settled with Hong Kong; as nothing has been settled, Shao Taotai did not think the instructions held good.
Sir R. Hart explained to him that the Hong Kong settlement depended upon the attitude of Macao.
Shao Taotai thought that it would be better to record what the understanding with Hong Kong was, and then, if Macao refused to make a similar arrangement, the matter was at an end.
Mr. Russell said that did not necessarily follow; perhaps some further plan could be proposed.
Sir B. Hart said he would like to lay on the table a paper showing what modifica- tions might have been made, if necessary, had his proposals regarding hulks been entertained. He had intended to have made this explanation at the time, but had been prevented by Mr. Russell putting forward his counter-proposal.
Mr. Russell reminded Sir R. Hart that, before putting forward his plan, he had asked whether, on the side of Chinesc, there was any alternative proposal.
Mr. Russell inquired whether Shao Taotai had obtained the Annual Returns, showing how much opium paid duty at the Native Customs in Kwangtung and Fulkien.
Shao Taotai said that, as regards Fulkien, the Tartar General, who is also Super- intendent of Customs, could give no Returns, as the duty was collected by the local officials at the different ports. As regards Kwangtung, the collection last year was on 6,500 piculs.
Mr. Russell asked whether Shao Taotai would put a written statement to that effect on the table,
Shao Taolai hesitated and said that he had merely telegraphed privately to the Superintendent of Customs at Canton, who had replied privately. Shao Taotai explained that the Superintendent at Canton reported his receipts to Pcking as if he had collected 30 taels a picul; as a matter of fact he gave a rebate, so that while the amount of duty was correct, the number of chests was understated.
Mr. Russell wished it to be noted that while China was asking Hong Kong to assist. her in repressing smuggling, the Chinese authorities were unable to produce Returns to show whether smuggling existed or not.
382
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